Stumbled across this again...

[goldvermilion87]

I wasn't looking for it, but it is no coincidence that I found it while composing something on A Scandal in Belgravia. 

It says something that I am constantly wanting to rant about (and sometimes do rant about to my friends) but it says it far better than I ever could:

"Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love, but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend. The rest of us know that though we can have erotic love and friendship for the same person yet in some ways nothing is less like a Friendship than a love-affair. Lovers are always talking to one another about their love; Friends hardly ever about their Friendship. Lovers are normally face to face, absorbed in each other; Friends, side by side, absorbed in some common interest. Above all, Eros (while it lasts) is necessarily between two only. But two, far from being the necessary number for Friendship, is not even the best."

-C.S. Lewis, The Four Loves

Comments

[beautifulntime.livejournal.com]

We need to have an IM conversation about this sometime. This is all.

(Well, all for now, anyway. Speaking of need, I'm in some for some sleep.)

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

We really should!

Actually, Celeritas has said as much on multiple occasions. I just never asked for your IM!

But if you need some sleep, now would obviously be a TERRIBLE time. :-P

[beautifulntime.livejournal.com]

Well isn't she a nosy little creature? ;)

I often find that the terrible time is the best time with a stopped watch (or something slightly more clever-sounding).

[labourslamp.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes, she is.

[beautifulntime.livejournal.com]

Love you, dear. ♥

[labourslamp.livejournal.com]

You'll thank me later.

[beautifulntime.livejournal.com]

Nay. I'll thank you five minutes ago. Put that in your Delorean and accelerate it.

[labourslamp.livejournal.com]

How many times have I told you?

I DON'T HAVE A CAR.

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

YOU SHOULD GET ONE.

WITH A STANDARD TRANSMISSION.

[labourslamp.livejournal.com]

Automatically!

[beautifulntime.livejournal.com]

You do in the future. Thus, wait for that moment, and then apply the aforementioned pressure to the gas pedal.

[labourslamp.livejournal.com]

Yes, but will it have a flux capacitor?

[beautifulntime.livejournal.com]

Apparently not. It seems ThinkGeek doesn't carry them anymore. :/

[labourslamp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

See us talking about you behind your back.

Though if you're as nosy as suspected, perhaps YOU DESERVE IT!

:-P

[labourslamp.livejournal.com]

Never said I didn't.

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

Amen. I love that book.

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

Me too!

I was actually looking for something in the chapter on Eros, and it's really interesting to think about A Scandal in Belgravia (which was the [very roundabout] reason for my flipping through the book this evening) in light of some of the stuff Lewis said. There are a few things that I've felt Moffat got very right in that ep (and in some of his other work) that became a bit clearer in my own brain. But then, while he is not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination, I think Moffat's strength as a writer is that he really observes humans and writes them as he sees them -- and that, I believe, is Lewis's strength as well. So it really shouldn't surprise me. :-)

[eanor.livejournal.com]

THIS IS SO TRUE!!!

Thanks so much for sharing this quote - I agree and second this so hard. I actually want to say more about it, but the quote is already so perfect I don't know what to add to it... Haven't read this book, but it sounds like I should. Very soon.

I guess that's one of the reasons I have a problem with people slashing John/Sherlock. By reducing their relationship to a simple romance, they're completely ignoring the power and complexity their friendship already has... But well, maybe that's another topic for a rant in itself...

Anyway, looking forward to your (doubtlessly very clever) thoughts on A Scandal in Belgravia (I was already starting to miss you...)! :-)

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

I'm with you -- who needs to rant when this quotation exists! highly recommend the book. The chapter on friendship is excellent, as are the other chapters. :-)

One other thing about this quotation in regards to fandom: To me it puts its finger on what makes, what I have taken to calling "non-slash slash" -- that fic that girls write that's meant to be gen, and doesn't actually have John and Sherlock sleeping together (most of these girls would be horrified by the thought) but it's really slashy anyway... Anyway, I think the "lovers look at each other, and friends look in the same direction" bit is exactly what happens. Non-slash slash may not have John and Sherlock smooching or anything beyond that, but it's all about John and Sherlock thinking about John and Sherlock and obsessing over the relationship of John and Sherlock... does that make sense?

Anyway... so many things to like about this quotation!

I was teaching on Freud today, so I rounded it out with this quotation... like a breathmint for the mind after chewing on Freud. :-P

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

(Also, this quotation explains why I am always torn between being mad and disgusted by John/Sherlock [and other completely unjustified slash pairings...] and just feeling sorry for the people who can't seem to fathom a friendship without it. I think Lewis is right, that if you've experienced friendship, you know full well that it exists apart from eros, and it just saddens me to think that some people just don't recognize that. It sounds patronizing, but it genuinely makes me sad to think what sort of a life that would be... :-( )

(PS: Not saying everyone who writes slash can't fathom friendship w/o eros, but still I think plenty can't... or come close...)