Stumbled across this again...
Feb. 11th, 2012 11:09 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
goldvermilion87I wasn't looking for it, but it is no coincidence that I found it while composing something on A Scandal in Belgravia.
It says something that I am constantly wanting to rant about (and sometimes do rant about to my friends) but it says it far better than I ever could:
"Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love, but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend. The rest of us know that though we can have erotic love and friendship for the same person yet in some ways nothing is less like a Friendship than a love-affair. Lovers are always talking to one another about their love; Friends hardly ever about their Friendship. Lovers are normally face to face, absorbed in each other; Friends, side by side, absorbed in some common interest. Above all, Eros (while it lasts) is necessarily between two only. But two, far from being the necessary number for Friendship, is not even the best."
-C.S. Lewis, The Four Loves
It says something that I am constantly wanting to rant about (and sometimes do rant about to my friends) but it says it far better than I ever could:
"Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love, but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend. The rest of us know that though we can have erotic love and friendship for the same person yet in some ways nothing is less like a Friendship than a love-affair. Lovers are always talking to one another about their love; Friends hardly ever about their Friendship. Lovers are normally face to face, absorbed in each other; Friends, side by side, absorbed in some common interest. Above all, Eros (while it lasts) is necessarily between two only. But two, far from being the necessary number for Friendship, is not even the best."
-C.S. Lewis, The Four Loves
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Date: 2012-02-12 04:14 am (UTC)(Well, all for now, anyway. Speaking of need, I'm in some for some sleep.)
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Date: 2012-02-12 04:30 am (UTC)Actually, Celeritas has said as much on multiple occasions. I just never asked for your IM!
But if you need some sleep, now would obviously be a TERRIBLE time. :-P
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Date: 2012-02-12 04:37 am (UTC)I often find that the terrible time is the best time with a stopped watch (or something slightly more clever-sounding).
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Date: 2012-02-12 05:21 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2012-02-12 05:28 am (UTC)I DON'T HAVE A CAR.
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Date: 2012-02-12 05:29 am (UTC)WITH A STANDARD TRANSMISSION.
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Date: 2012-02-12 05:49 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2012-02-12 02:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-12 05:21 am (UTC)Though if you're as nosy as suspected, perhaps YOU DESERVE IT!
:-P
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Date: 2012-02-12 05:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-12 04:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-12 04:29 am (UTC)I was actually looking for something in the chapter on Eros, and it's really interesting to think about A Scandal in Belgravia (which was the [very roundabout] reason for my flipping through the book this evening) in light of some of the stuff Lewis said. There are a few things that I've felt Moffat got very right in that ep (and in some of his other work) that became a bit clearer in my own brain. But then, while he is not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination, I think Moffat's strength as a writer is that he really observes humans and writes them as he sees them -- and that, I believe, is Lewis's strength as well. So it really shouldn't surprise me. :-)
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Date: 2012-02-12 10:53 am (UTC)Thanks so much for sharing this quote - I agree and second this so hard. I actually want to say more about it, but the quote is already so perfect I don't know what to add to it... Haven't read this book, but it sounds like I should. Very soon.
I guess that's one of the reasons I have a problem with people slashing John/Sherlock. By reducing their relationship to a simple romance, they're completely ignoring the power and complexity their friendship already has... But well, maybe that's another topic for a rant in itself...
Anyway, looking forward to your (doubtlessly very clever) thoughts on A Scandal in Belgravia (I was already starting to miss you...)! :-)
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Date: 2012-02-14 12:42 am (UTC)One other thing about this quotation in regards to fandom: To me it puts its finger on what makes, what I have taken to calling "non-slash slash" -- that fic that girls write that's meant to be gen, and doesn't actually have John and Sherlock sleeping together (most of these girls would be horrified by the thought) but it's really slashy anyway... Anyway, I think the "lovers look at each other, and friends look in the same direction" bit is exactly what happens. Non-slash slash may not have John and Sherlock smooching or anything beyond that, but it's all about John and Sherlock thinking about John and Sherlock and obsessing over the relationship of John and Sherlock... does that make sense?
Anyway... so many things to like about this quotation!
I was teaching on Freud today, so I rounded it out with this quotation... like a breathmint for the mind after chewing on Freud. :-P
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Date: 2012-02-14 12:45 am (UTC)(PS: Not saying everyone who writes slash can't fathom friendship w/o eros, but still I think plenty can't... or come close...)